Comments on: The USA, the CIA, and Tim Weiner’s Legacy of Ashes http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/12/22/the-usa-the-cia-and-tim-weiners-legacy-of-ashes/ A Fresh Look at News, Politics and History Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:03:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3 by: Steve Plonk http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/12/22/the-usa-the-cia-and-tim-weiners-legacy-of-ashes/#comment-1078 Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:53:35 +0000 http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/12/22/the-usa-the-cia-and-tim-weiners-legacy-of-ashes/#comment-1078 Mikey, I agree with the ethics portion of your comment; however, every government I know of has "plausible deniability". You may be watching too much of "The Unit". Spy services aren't spy services if they can't speak the languages of the countries they enter, and if they walk around with a transparent dossier. Spy services are needed in today's world. Finally, certainly we don't need too many loose cannons. There must be coordination between agencies and there must be limits to what is divulged. Accountability is important also. There must be a clear chain of command...So let's keep it tightly wrapped. Mikey, I agree with the ethics portion of your comment; however, every government I know of has “plausible deniability”. You may be watching too much of “The Unit”. Spy services aren’t spy services if they can’t speak the languages of the countries they enter, and if they walk around with a transparent dossier. Spy services are needed in today’s world.
Finally, certainly we don’t need too many loose cannons. There must be coordination between agencies and there must be limits to what is divulged. Accountability is important also. There must be a clear chain of command…So let’s keep it tightly wrapped.

]]> by: Mikey http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/12/22/the-usa-the-cia-and-tim-weiners-legacy-of-ashes/#comment-1077 Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:16:23 +0000 http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/12/22/the-usa-the-cia-and-tim-weiners-legacy-of-ashes/#comment-1077 No, we get it all wrong, Levi, Steve, because we are stupid and callous. Ambassadors should know everything that’s going on in their country of assignment. They should speak the language, know the history, know everything. Instead we appoint dumfuk actresses, businessmen, and campaign contributors to positions that must be our eyes and ears of vital international concern. Our Iraninan embassy was overrun in ’79, gosh, never saw that coming. Yet that is our standard for foreign intelligence. ‘Plausible deniability’ is to tell our children and everyone else that it’s perfectly okay to cheat, to lie, to hump another person’s spouse. Ever heard of ethics, honor, civility? Successful foreign policy is ‘to do the right thing’ not just what’s in one’s best short-term interest. Palestinian children have the same rights as Israeli children. To lead by force and self-interest is to make an enemy of everyone you encounter. To lead by example and fairness is to make followers of everyone you meet. It’s not the strong who survive, it’s the smart. The stupid destroy themselves regardless of how powerful they think they are. No, we get it all wrong, Levi, Steve, because we are stupid and callous. Ambassadors should know everything that’s going on in their country of assignment. They should speak the language, know the history, know everything. Instead we appoint dumfuk actresses, businessmen, and campaign contributors to positions that must be our eyes and ears of vital international concern. Our Iraninan embassy was overrun in ’79, gosh, never saw that coming. Yet that is our standard for foreign intelligence.

‘Plausible deniability’ is to tell our children and everyone else that it’s perfectly okay to cheat, to lie, to hump another person’s spouse. Ever heard of ethics, honor, civility? Successful foreign policy is ‘to do the right thing’ not just what’s in one’s best short-term interest. Palestinian children have the same rights as Israeli children. To lead by force and self-interest is to make an enemy of everyone you encounter. To lead by example and fairness is to make followers of everyone you meet.

It’s not the strong who survive, it’s the smart. The stupid destroy themselves regardless of how powerful they think they are.

]]> by: Steve Plonk http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/12/22/the-usa-the-cia-and-tim-weiners-legacy-of-ashes/#comment-1074 Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:31:56 +0000 http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/12/22/the-usa-the-cia-and-tim-weiners-legacy-of-ashes/#comment-1074 The book sounds like the guy is a "monday morning quarterback". Having an effective intelligence community is important in today's world... I will have to read it for myself. All of our legacy is really an empire of dirt. If we have either no scruples, nor legacy of patriotism, we are in for a hard fall. If that is Weiner's lesson, than his point is well taken... On the other hand, I thoroughly enjoyed Bamford's THE PUZZLE PALACE about the NSA. I hope I can overlook Weiner's foibles and enjoy his book also. I do not share the author's "contempt" for Clinton. I however reserve my contempt for what happened during the Reagan adminsitration. The elder Bush tried to help us climb out of that "morass of overspending", etc. and Clinton continued the military intelligence build-up using quality control which is lacking in the current W Bush administration. What we need is a "world view". I am certain that Clinton shared that world view. Perhaps, an unpoliticized CIA is what is needed. (Incidentally, I am currently for Richardson; however, that may change depending on how he does in the primaries.) The left hand must always know what the right hand is doing so there is coordination. There always must be "plausible deniability" for the intelligence community. Only the Congressional Intel Committee and and certain members of the executive branch have any business criticizing the intelligence community. Facts should be brought out behind closed doors or approved before being let out into the press. Leaking intelligence information, like in the Plame case, should continue to be against the law. The book sounds like the guy is a “monday morning quarterback”. Having an effective intelligence community is important in today’s world… I will have to read it for myself. All of our legacy is really an empire of dirt. If we have either no scruples, nor legacy of patriotism, we are in for a hard fall. If that is Weiner’s lesson, than his point is well taken… On the other hand, I thoroughly enjoyed Bamford’s THE PUZZLE PALACE about the NSA. I hope I can overlook Weiner’s foibles and enjoy his book also. I do not share the author’s “contempt” for Clinton. I however reserve my contempt for what happened during the Reagan adminsitration. The elder Bush tried to help us climb out of that “morass of overspending”, etc. and Clinton continued the military intelligence build-up using quality control which is lacking in the current W Bush administration. What we need is a “world view”. I am certain that Clinton shared that world view. Perhaps, an unpoliticized CIA is what is needed. (Incidentally, I am currently for Richardson; however, that may change depending on how he does in the primaries.) The left hand must always know what the right hand is doing so there is coordination. There always must be “plausible deniability” for the intelligence community. Only the Congressional Intel Committee and and certain members of the executive branch have any business criticizing the intelligence community. Facts should be brought out behind closed doors or approved before being let out into the press.

Leaking intelligence information, like in the Plame case, should continue to be against the law.

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