Comments on: How To Avoid Refugee Crisis (or Worse) in Iraq http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/ A Fresh Look at News, Politics and History Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:15:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3 by: Mike Covey http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/#comment-1018 Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:07:31 +0000 http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/#comment-1018 Seriously, Cheney/Bush/Rice are too stupid to comprehend ‘Bin Laden planning to attack New York...soon.’ Either that, or they welcome defense contracts from a new and better ‘cold war’ that’ll last a long, long time. Seriously, if you think they have any interests besides campaign contributions from defense contractors; and international wealth and power from Saudi investors, you’re missing the obvious. Do they care if poor kids die in Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, or anywhere else? Do they really care about that? Are they demanding that we save Darfurians from starvation, disease, and slaughter? They only way for the the UN to succeed - is for the US to be its champion, not one of the biggest road blocks undermining the UN at every opportunity. But that’s what they want, and that’s what we got. Gonzo aint going nowhere, nor Cheney/Bush/Rice; they laughing all the way to the bank. Seriously, Cheney/Bush/Rice are too stupid to comprehend ‘Bin Laden planning to attack New York…soon.’ Either that, or they welcome defense contracts from a new and better ‘cold war’ that’ll last a long, long time. Seriously, if you think they have any interests besides campaign contributions from defense contractors; and international wealth and power from Saudi investors, you’re missing the obvious.

Do they care if poor kids die in Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, or anywhere else? Do they really care about that? Are they demanding that we save Darfurians from starvation, disease, and slaughter?

They only way for the the UN to succeed - is for the US to be its champion, not one of the biggest road blocks undermining the UN at every opportunity. But that’s what they want, and that’s what we got. Gonzo aint going nowhere, nor Cheney/Bush/Rice; they laughing all the way to the bank.

]]> by: brooklyn http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/#comment-1017 Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:09:00 +0000 http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/#comment-1017 So, aside from your humorous flourishes, you're saying that we need to involve the UN? In that case I totally agree, though it's a fact that the UN hasn't proven itself to be capable of fast action to prevent genocide (see "Rwanda"). Also, I'm not really sure if this is what you're saying or not. Mike, the good news is that the American people and non-Executive branch politicians have finally wised up to the point that we can realistically expect plans for a US withdrawal from Iraq to begin sooner than many previously expected. Things have changed, and we need to shift our focus from condemning Bush/Cheney (their ineffectiveness is now widely understood) to figuring out how to get out of the mess they created in Iraq without letting things get worse. So I think it's a pretty serious question that I'm raising here, and it deserves a thoughtful and serious answer. So, aside from your humorous flourishes, you’re saying that we need to involve the UN? In that case I totally agree, though it’s a fact that the UN hasn’t proven itself to be capable of fast action to prevent genocide (see “Rwanda”). Also, I’m not really sure if this is what you’re saying or not.

Mike, the good news is that the American people and non-Executive branch politicians have finally wised up to the point that we can realistically expect plans for a US withdrawal from Iraq to begin sooner than many previously expected. Things have changed, and we need to shift our focus from condemning Bush/Cheney (their ineffectiveness is now widely understood) to figuring out how to get out of the mess they created in Iraq without letting things get worse. So I think it’s a pretty serious question that I’m raising here, and it deserves a thoughtful and serious answer.

]]> by: Mike Covey http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/#comment-1016 Mon, 16 Jul 2007 19:59:25 +0000 http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/#comment-1016 If Iraq is like Vietnam, maybe they’ll get a Nike contract. If George Bush planned the invasion, maybe Mickey Mouse can plan the withdrawal. If Muslim Paki’s and Hindu Indians want to kill each other, why not have nuclear weapons. Semites want to kill Semites in the Holy Land, but when Clinton was getting blowed, there wasn’t any killing going on. We can’t assume that we smart, and Persians is dumb. This assumption that America gots to plan the new world order is about as clever as Halliburton relocating to Dubai. You started Cherry Orchard with the UN. If we don’t trumpet the UN at every turn of phrase, we get 9/11’d. That’s a fact. If Iraq is like Vietnam, maybe they’ll get a Nike contract. If George Bush planned the invasion, maybe Mickey Mouse can plan the withdrawal. If Muslim Paki’s and Hindu Indians want to kill each other, why not have nuclear weapons. Semites want to kill Semites in the Holy Land, but when Clinton was getting blowed, there wasn’t any killing going on. We can’t assume that we smart, and Persians is dumb. This assumption that America gots to plan the new world order is about as clever as Halliburton relocating to Dubai. You started Cherry Orchard with the UN. If we don’t trumpet the UN at every turn of phrase, we get 9/11’d. That’s a fact.

]]> by: brooklyn http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/#comment-1015 Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:46:39 +0000 http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/#comment-1015 Mike, I'm not in the habit of agreeing with Cheney/Bush/Rice on anything. But they are not the source of my belief that a USA pullout from Iraq must be planned and executed very carefully and intelligently (much more carefully and intelligently than the US invasion was planned) to avoid a real risk of a refugee crisis as the country splits into Sunni and Shiite power bases. My source here is history. I pointed above to the partition of India in 1947 as one example we must study. When has a country ever partitioned without causing a refugee crisis? Or is it that you believe Iraq's current "shared' government will remain in power throughout the country after a US pullout? I don't see much basis for that belief. I guess I'm wondering what you are suggesting, Mike -- are you suggesting that we don't need to worry too much about what will happen in Iraq after we pull out? The fact that Bush and Cheney use the dangers of a USA pullout to buttress their case for continuing the war doesn't mean these dangers aren't real (though I think you and I agree that they are no good reason for continuing the war). Mike, I’m not in the habit of agreeing with Cheney/Bush/Rice on anything. But they are not the source of my belief that a USA pullout from Iraq must be planned and executed very carefully and intelligently (much more carefully and intelligently than the US invasion was planned) to avoid a real risk of a refugee crisis as the country splits into Sunni and Shiite power bases.

My source here is history. I pointed above to the partition of India in 1947 as one example we must study. When has a country ever partitioned without causing a refugee crisis? Or is it that you believe Iraq’s current “shared’ government will remain in power throughout the country after a US pullout? I don’t see much basis for that belief.

I guess I’m wondering what you are suggesting, Mike — are you suggesting that we don’t need to worry too much about what will happen in Iraq after we pull out?

The fact that Bush and Cheney use the dangers of a USA pullout to buttress their case for continuing the war doesn’t mean these dangers aren’t real (though I think you and I agree that they are no good reason for continuing the war).

]]> by: Mike Covey http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/#comment-1014 Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:22:38 +0000 http://www.thecherryorchard.org/2007/07/16/how-to-avoid-refugee-crisis-or-worse-in-iraq/#comment-1014 The Cheney/Bush/Rice theme for the past year, has been - we need to have American soldiers dying, otherwise Iraq with descend into a regional inferno. Nobody knows that. Tucker Carlson says “yeah, that’s true.” He doesn’t know that. Why is this absolute unknown accepted as absolute fact? In Anbar, Sunni warlords are fighting foreign agitators mercilessly. The Kurds aren’t actively killing other Iraqi’s. Most points south of Bagdad seem relatively quiet and stable. That’s fact. Fact is what we know. I could say - the primary cause of instability is US troop presence. That holds as much validity as - withdrawal would lead to chaos. Iran doesn’t want a fight with the 90% Sunni population in the Mideast. Only Al Queada wants regional revolution; and they can’t sustain it against Saudi, Eqypt, Turkey, Iran, etc. - call their bluff. Al Queada was a puny little terrorist concept until Bush propelled them to ‘cold war with Russia’ status. This is economics. This is 1984. This is fact. The Cheney/Bush/Rice theme for the past year, has been - we need to have American soldiers dying, otherwise Iraq with descend into a regional inferno. Nobody knows that. Tucker Carlson says “yeah, that’s true.” He doesn’t know that. Why is this absolute unknown accepted as absolute fact?

In Anbar, Sunni warlords are fighting foreign agitators mercilessly. The Kurds aren’t actively killing other Iraqi’s. Most points south of Bagdad seem relatively quiet and stable. That’s fact. Fact is what we know.

I could say - the primary cause of instability is US troop presence. That holds as much validity as - withdrawal would lead to chaos.

Iran doesn’t want a fight with the 90% Sunni population in the Mideast. Only Al Queada wants regional revolution; and they can’t sustain it against Saudi, Eqypt, Turkey, Iran, etc. - call their bluff.

Al Queada was a puny little terrorist concept until Bush propelled them to ‘cold war with Russia’ status. This is economics. This is 1984. This is fact.

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